Skyride — A few years back there was a point where if you’d asked almost anyone in the community, they would have said competitive TF2 would be dead within the year. All of our major MGOs were disappearing, ESL had all but decided we weren’t worth their time, and LANs were vanishing left right and center. We were a small group having a laugh right at the end. I suppose in a way there was something gratifying about that idea. Everyone else had long since disappeared from the scene, those who had been playing TFC since the early days finally had real life staring them in the face, and all we had to replace them was a few pub players messing around in div 6.
But then things started to drag on. Brink came and went, yet the ETF2L signups continued to grow. i43, “the last big LAN of european TF2″ passed, but TF2lobby remained active. Hats kept polluting the screen and the FPS kept dropping, so we just bought new computers. Almost as long I’ve been involved with this game competitively there has been a sense that we’ve reached the edge, but the edge just keeps on moving.
Given how things have went over the last 12 months, I think we need to recognise something: TF2 is not dying. 6v6 is not dying, and – not that I really need to say it – but highlander isn’t dying. What has happened is that we’ve seen huge growth in player numbers, a vast, incalculable increase in interest in the competitive scene from casual players, and new leagues begin to appear. As much as I may not be a fan of it, highlander has created competitive players from people who otherwise would have remained on their 24/7 badwater servers, and personalities such as Sal and Star have exposed a casual fanbase to something that they otherwise would never have looked into.
I think that it’s time we recognise where we are. We’re large, we’re growing, and we’ve got something truly unique. We’ve got hard working, talented people producing amazing content on a regular basis. We’ve got an amazing game that anyone can get into and follow. But most importantly we’ve got an amazing community.
We are TF2.
61 comments
TweetI LOVE YOU GUIZE
ps if you read the first letter of every line it spells out “SUMMER DREAMHACK HERE WE COME (HL3 CONFIRMED)”
I had to check if that was true :(
- # - nice! +6we’re on a point where, as an FPS, we have a unique mix. No other game out there has the potential to be the next big FPS out there. Many have tried, and they have all failed. But TF2… TF2 can do it, it can become the biggest FPS out there, and all it needs is a few more pushes. And i’m pushing as hard as i can, and i know others are pushing too. And that makes me excited for the future, its what been driving me for the past two years as i’ve been doing coverage. there is way for me to stop and look back, for what lies ahead makes me excited :)
shootmania down, push
TF2.IS.DEAD.
- # - nice! +6GET USED2IT
I think it died less than you did on upward :)!
TF2 doesnt respawn :(
WE ARE WHAT DWELLS WITHIN YOU. WE ARE TF2.
- # - nice! +3Stay strong brother.
twitchTV John we love you
Screw Old_Grandma
“We’re large, we’re growing, and we’ve got something truly unique”
Thats what she said, really
- # - nice! +7LIKE DIS IF U CRY EVRYTIM
*NIEC DIS IF U CRY E4ERYTIEM
- # - nice! +7a touching read
- # - nice! +3We’re already the best. It’s just we only have a couple of organisations that support us. Multiplay support us at insomnia and the TF2 tournament ends up with more players than CS. We just need people with money that can make things happen.
feedback.majorleaguegaming.com...
- # - nice! +1i.imgur.com/4pv5u.jpg (proof at time of writing).
Unless as a scene you decided to all but ditch ESEA, going with MLG would not be a good idea.
- # - nice! +0I agree, but the point is that TF2 got more votes than anything else.
- # - nice! +0Ah yes.
No it’s amazing, it does show the fanbase we have. TF2 is the second most popular game on steam. The playerbase is there, we just need to keep showing them competitive TF2 and keep gaining mindshare.
- # - nice! +5“ESL had all but decided we weren’t worth their time”
Ehhh.. of what I remember, it was the complete other way around.
I remember tf2 had ems(money), big league and everything in esl indeed.
But then as a reaction to unlocks and a poor ac client (eg. fps spikes, penalty points for nonuploads, and “more hassle” to play) the whole top scene/division vanished from esl and moved to etf2l, where they could set thier own rules.
Like no fucking wonder esl dropped tf2.
This x 100.
It was mostly people not wanting to adhere to some basic rules of uploading screens etc. The AC client was bad from some people, but I still believe it was shitty computers 90% of the time, but okay for most.
- # - nice! +7TF2 scene dropping ESL was the biggest setback to date if we’re talking about e-Sports. the game and community itself seems to be doing fine but people still seem to think this could get bigger than it already is, but honestly, it won’t.
FPS scene is SLOWLY but steadily dying. It’s downright impossible to create anything completely new and everything is directed more to casual players.
CS:GO is the only FPS that will get the spotlight in the future even though it’s a horrible game compared to 1.6 or TF2
- # - nice! +3Obviously it wouldn’t be fair for me to release specifics, but based on things I’ve seen and heard while pursuing TF2 at Dreamhack, I can assure you CS:GO is far from “getting the spotlight”.
- # - nice! +5At no point did ESL actually give a shit about TF2 really. Anakin, Haunter and a few others tried their best to make changes, speak to the ESL higher ups about this, but ultimately didn’t really care or feel like making any allowances.
The top end of the TF2 scene vanishing from ESL was in direct response to ESL not really giving a fuck about the TF2 scene.
ESL has a section for every game in existence that has more than 2 people in the world who like competing against each other. Do you really think ESL dropped TF2 so they could better focus their efforts on their OMGPOP and Tetris Friends divsions?
- # - nice! +3You are complaining that ESL wouldn’t want to make the rules less strict?
- # - nice! +2To be totally frank, ESL are a scumbag organisation. They regularly take 18+ months to pay out, their admins are notoriously unreasonable, and their site is a mess. At the moment they’re bassically riding off their success from years ago in the Quake and Source/1.6 scene.
Just remember that ESL != IEM, even though technically they are the same org.
I’m not complaining, i’m simply stating a fact. ESL really weren’t giving anything to the TF2 scene. Their tournament was run 100% by community volunteers, and the EMS prize money is still nothing compared to what ETF2L could and can realistically command if they get their act together.
- # - nice! +2So it was only the price money and slow pay-outs?
We all know it was because most of the TF2 community consists of whiney bitches that can’t follow some simple rules. The site was shit, but I never had any troubles when you learned to use your control panel.
- # - nice! +4I suppose what I’m arguing is less “nah tf2 community wasn’t wrong”, it’s more “blowing off esl isn’t nearly as much of a big deal as it’s made out to be”.
- # - nice! +2ESL signed their own death warrant with their attempts to push an inferior product onto a TF2 community that was used to something much better. That’s all there is to it.
- # - nice! +2Got to agree with quad here. The TF2 community is spoiled by ETF2L and most players do not even bother to sign up at another page (such as excello, where 128 slot CoD4 tournaments are full within a day, or ESH) for a prize tournament.
While I am glad that ETF2L is the main league for TF2 in Europe, I am not happy it is not supported by any other of the big eSports organisations that may hold more potential for the competitive scene to grow.
When the TF2 section was closed down, it consisted only of a 1v1 soldier and a 1v1 scout ladder with an occasional match every two months (not to mention there was no dedicated staff left).
- # - nice! +4if only people that dont play tf2 could realise what we have
- # - nice! +2Don’t want to seem negative, but as happy as i am that new players keep appearing in tf2, a decreasing amount of them make it to the top and as it stands there are no good players left to replace those moving on from premier tf2. The skill gap between the top 3 (2?!) teams and ALL the other teams is so big at the moment and ever expanding that to me it seems the higher levels are degenerating at an alarming rate and these new players no matter how many there may be simply aren’t filling the void. Back when i wanted to play in prem i had a lot of motivation to do it and play amongst the top players and i’m sure others like me (stefaaan etc) felt the same and this is how we made it but this motivation just seems non-existent at the moment. Ofc TF2 isn’t “dead” but i feel that the top level is and that’s what most spectators are interested in (specs/views = mgo’s right??).
- # - nice! +5np Crack Clan for playoffs comeback.
- # - nice! +7i46 left a pretty huge void in prem, and it was never going to be filled during a single season, and the fact that the remaining players centred the talent over 2 teams hardly helped either. I hope the situation rectifies itself over time, though.
Highlander killed 6v6??
- # - nice! +4Completely agree with this.
To be honest, the new Epsilon lineup would pretty much roll much on every team from one year ago the exact same way they do now.
The fact that BFF is pretty much the same kind of line-up that infused was and they can barely compete with the new Epsilon kind of proves it imho. :<
There is no way this kind of skill gap between Epsilon and the new teams are gonna be filled in a sole season.
Epsilon will take 300 pounds of finnish meat in their gullet.
- # - nice! +6This community is very much about who you know or being lucky enough to be recognised (usually by excellent deathmatching skills). I don’t blame Epsilon for picking the best players available to them, nor BFF but that has its consequences on the balance of skill across the board. Circling through the same players is inevitably going to increase the skill gap, as those who remain will continue to distance themselves from the rest (by gaining more and more experience season after season). I also feel as if the impact of scouts on top level play is also a huge factor and is what is giving both Epsilon and BFF the “edge” over the competition at the moment.
- # - nice! +7scouts plus demoman obvsly
- # - nice! +1Just so we don’t go around the same old ground debated every 2 months, I remember Mr Adam Findley talking to me at i43 about how he loves the TF2 community so much but it had no potential to grow into an e-sport and it wasn’t due to last till the next big LAN, but now a year and so on there is a complete u-turn in optimism from Skyride. Not to mention he is one of the most active community members at the moment doing great things behind the scenes for TF2 competitively, quietely going about his business like many of the unsung heroes (CanFo, Comedian, Trell, all the streamers + those organising newbie mixes, pickups, lending out servers and much more.).
Fills me up with promise, thank you guys for putting so much in.
Haha, thanks man.
Tbh, it’s just since i46 I’ve really started to see this differently. There’s no guaretee we’re going to do well yet, but the potential is there if people can get their stuff together.
Yup. Skyride is a good damn, he deserves to be a president
- # - nice! +4dunno what I typed, “Skyride is damn good”
- # - nice! +6Live long and prosper.
pls
- # - nice! +2Tf2 is too old to make it big now. why is there always hype not backed up by anything?
where is the multimillion cash tournaments you see in other top games?
Tf2 is big now. and that is because of valves efforts mainly. not ours. all we did was love it. and valve made it f2p so word got around. you need big money to make a game big. tf2 is too old to do that because:
It wont sell anything. there is no profit to be made from tf2 outside of its own microtransactions
cod, starcraft, dota, etc all have the power to sell tf2 does not
- # - nice! +5All I can see reading this is that you clearly don’t understand how esports works. There really aren’t “multi million dollar cash tournaments” for other games. In SC2 the highest first place prize was NASL with $100k, but they’ve only had 3 actual tournaments in the last 18 months, and it’s part of a 3 month season + LAN finals AND it’s pay-per-view. Next is GSL Code S with ~$65k (roughly based on exchange rate), and beyond that pretty much everything is $30k or below.
The international is actually quite damaging to the Dota 2 scene. They have 1 huge tournament a year, and people just practice for that, don’t care too much about winning the rest of the year and get their shit together ~3-4 months before it, then fold after. It’s like summer i-series for us but 10x worse.
LoL? That game wouldn’t be a major esport if Riot weren’t throwing astronomical sums of money at it to make it happen, and like every major tournament is Riot backed. That’s not how you do esports.
Developer support would make the road so much easier, but it’s not be all end all.
all i was saying (multimillion being a deliberate exaggeration) Is that someone somewhere needs to throw large sums of money at a sport for it to become big. and they would only be doing this if there is a gain for them from doing this.
riot throw more money at lol because it generates them revenue in sales and advertising
valve has no need to do this, neither does anyone else
- # - nice! +2The only way TF2 will be a major esport title, is when Disney descides to create a TF2 movie. That would have a major impact on the scene. Valve can supply us Disney hats and alot of 8 year old free to play newbs. And we become the next CS, Dota, LoL esport title.
- # - nice! +2Given how things have gone*
Sorry, I’m a bastard etc etc but these things really annoy me :D
- # - nice! +1“We’re large, we’re growing, and we’ve got something truly unique.” This is exactly what I can say about my peenees.
- # - nice! +5I want TF3. I want it to be a competitive game, like MOBAs, not a trade fortress and 32 player pubs. I mean that the pub itself is like TF2Lobby. People may disagree with me, that they love playing pubs with nothing to worry about and while camping 30 mins behind their sentries. Fine, go play TF2.
- # - nice! +3European premiership TF2 has never had many top, A++ level players in its whole existance. In fact, we have fractionally more than the USA has, and that’s about it.
The problem was, that European TF2 was content with splitting the highest level’s of talent around the teams. All the teams were quite happy with their lineups, they could all take games off each other, and everything was good.
However, the American’s flipped all that. For months, and even possibly years, the Americans have taken an almost, no shame approach to recruiting players into the top teams. They will kick out old friends, and grab the new up and coming talent in order to be the best. Some teams do retain a core, but still, they are pretty ruthless over there, while European TF2 was quite tame in comparison. After i46, the European teams are in the process of adopting the American way of recruiting, which is simply to grab the very BEST players, and no settle for less. Epsilon being the most active and stable, picked up a couple of players, and BFF pulled together a strong team too.
There’s still a million high skill players out there, who are either looking for a team, or are in the process of forming one. But, very few would be considered to be, “the best”.
And for any sort of TF3 release, I honestly believe there is only one way that TF2 could be successful, and that’s if the competitive game shifted away from the typical capture points, onto variant of ‘payload’ maps.
The payload game style is incredibly enjoyable for the casual gamer to watch, as it’s extremely easy to understand. There is no real ‘down time’ in a payload game (the type where both teams push one cart). However, in order to be less repetitive, a typical payload map, would need some sort of side objectives, like maybe some capture point areas that can speed up the cart, or open up shortcuts or something.
Maybe even in the same style that league of legends respawn times increases to discourage stale mates, and not having a match end in he first few mins, the map could start off with the cart moving very slowely, and as the game goes on, the push speed of the cart begins to increase, until maybe, the 30 minute mark, where a x4 cart would move the same run speed of a scout when pushed :)
Public players would be playing the same game as the competitive players, and therefore would understand what was going on more. Might sound dull to some people, but I guarantee the concept is not half as dull as the hugeeeeee article I’ve been working on, discussing it ;)
Coming soon!
- # - nice! +7well, one thing certainly hasn’t changed: arx killing “keep going tf2!” posts with yet more “we need to allow unlocks and play retarded maps” bullshit
moving rapidly on from that car crash, apparently I’m getting a community weapon. thanks whoever nominated me/whatever for that. much appreciated :)
tf2 will always be “this”. it has been for nearly 7 years now. never hugely successful, but never dead. we have an awesome community. the only way to improve the scene is to get “leader” types like byte forming new teams with “potential” players. they all need to stick it out though, it’s teamwork that gets you in to prem. are you busy, f2?
after the slightly awkward collapse of all major EU teams (gonna say *especially* our-only-hope Epsilon) at i46 I can understand why slick wanted to create a “mega team”, but it won’t be hugely beneficial for the scene. then again, it’ll only be a matter of time before some of them get bored.. I’m looking at you seb
- # - nice! +4IM HAVING SO MUCH FUN DUNC
- # - nice! +2lol good one
- # - nice! +2fuck off
- # - nice! +6TF2 is fun, and as long as I enjoy it, I will keep playing it, regardless of whether people say “TF2 is dying” or “TF2 is bigger than ever”. The people behind ETF2L, VanillaTF2 and VanillaTV are doing a ton of work, and we should all be very grateful for that.
That said, I believe we are a shrinking eSport seen from outside of TF2. By creating our own excellent league, excellent news coverage, and excellent casting service, we have shut ourselves out from the rest of the eSports scene.
Looking at our (European) scene now compared to earlier, there are some alarming observations:
Regular TF2 coverage on multi-gaming news sites (eg. cadred)
- gone
Regular TF2 casting by others than VanillaTF2 (eg. QuadV, pwnageTV)
- gone
Regular prize-money cups (eg. esportsheaven, excello, EMS)
- gone
Regular lans outside UK with good prize money (eg. Assembly)
- gone
Whether or not this is a problem is up to each one of us to decide.
*cough* waves hand. Helllo!
- # - nice! +6LAN´s gone?
- # - nice! +1ESH gone?
- # - nice! +1Damn it, my plan to kill off 6v6 has failed.
Seriously though, I’m surprised and glad to see your comment about Highlander. Kudos.
- # - nice! +2